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From: ????????????????????????
Subject: Pipes Digest #132 - February 25, 1994

		Pipes Digest #132 - February 25, 1994
		     Circulation This Issue: 224

Welcome to new members:

	Steve Weinberg		(?????????????????????????????)
	Richard Beal		(????????????????)
	LenrdZelig		(??????????????????)
	Ed Gregory		(????????????????)
	William Patterson	(?????????????????)
	Michael C. Merrifield	(???????????????????????)
	Walt Stein 		(?????????????????????????)
	Ben Ricci 		(via Robin Garr, ????????????????????????)

And, first off, we have a couple of administrative questions that I'd
like your opinions on -- whether to create a cigars-only group, and
whether to gateway the list to the Pipes & Cigars area of the
Wine/Beer Forum on CompuServe. The relevant letters follow; enjoy!

And, BTW, there was some traffic on rec.woodworking this week about
building humidors. Still a hot topic! 

Plus, in this issue, a plea from Canada (this may be an opportunity
for USers in search of Fidel's Finest), word on the Hubble (Bubble,
not Telescope), and much more! -S.

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From: ??????????????????? (Rex Wockner)
Subject: Re: Pipes Digest #131 - February 18, 1994

I'm new to this list, so I apologize if this has been discussed before.

Has anyone ever suggested segregating Pipes Digest from a not-yet-
created Cigar Digest?

I can't be the only subscriber who is interested in one but not in
the other.

Rex Wockner
(a cigar-smoker, partial to Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur #1, but flexible 
and adventuresome)

[ Deja vu all over again... This actually came up about 15 issues ago.
Admittedly, we've been getting a lot of cigar volume here, and maybe
it's time for someone to start a cigars-only list of their own. Your
Opportunity to Start Your Own Mailgroup! If anyone wants to do so,
please let me know; I'd be glad to provide access to my software and
post the relevant details here.  -S. ]

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From: Robin Garr <????????????????????????>
Subject: Pipes Digest

Hi, Steve!  I'm the Associate Sysop of the CompuServe Wine/Beer Forum, where
Ben Ricci is the leader of our Cigars & Pipes section.  Ben told me about
your Internet Pipe Digest and suggested that we consider subscribing and
sharing some of your mailing list's discussion across the
CompuServe/Internet gateway.
Because Ben doesn't have direct Internet access and has to pay long-distance
charges to reach CompuServe, he's asked if I'd mind being the forum's
contact point by taking a subscription to my mailbox.  I'll collect the
postings, trim off the address material, ZIP them and pass them on to Ben,
who'll -- with your permission -- post conversations from them to our forum
and encourage our members to reply back to your list as well as in our own
round-table discussion area.
Although I'm not a smoker (used to be, smoked my last cigarette on St.
Patrick's Day 1974 and don't dast risk a seegar or pipe for fear I'll fall
off the nicotine wagon), I've been very interested in the tobacco
discussions on our forum, and can see clear connections between serious pipe
and tobacco appreciation and wine appreciation, so this topic fits right in
to our area of interest.
Assuming your approval, I'll look forward to reading your digest and sharing
it with our members online.
Robin Garr
Associate Sysop, CompuServe Wine/Beer Forum

[ I replied to Robin, expressing some concerns about member privacy
and the possibility of flame wars. He replied: ]

From: Robin Garr <????????????????????????>
Subject: Re:  Pipes Digest

Steve, thanks for the info on pipes.  Looking at its length, I know Ben's
going to appreciate getting a compressed copy! <grin>
To answer your question, I don't know how familiar you are with the way
CompuServe forums operate, but you could say that our forum is more like a
BBS system than a mailing list.  Members post messages on the public board,
and other members can read them and post replies, all of which are open for
reading and comment by all comers.  This feature is quite busy and
fast-moving, and messages have a "shelf life" of only a few days before they
scroll off.  We also have "libraries," which contain longer files of general
information, available to members by keyword search.  This is where I expect
we'd plan to cross-post the Pipe Digest, in an area normally habituated only
by smokers and serious fanciers of fine tobacco. We also have live online
conferences at scheduled times (usually Wednesday evenings) when members can
gather in real-time and communicate directly via their keyboards.
We DON'T, however, have a mailing-list type facility. We don't send material
out by mail, but make it available on CompuServe's mainframes where users
can log on, read it, and post replies if they wish.  I guess a moderated
Usenet newsgroup is the closest 'net analogy.
The forum is moderated in that we have a staff of managers (sysops like me
and "section leaders" like Ben) who try to maintain information in the forum
in clear, easy-to-access form and keep things organized.
To be quite frank, we have NOT found "flaming" or harassment to be a
problem. CompuServe is not inexpensive -- in fact, jokers online refer to it
as "Compu$erve" -- and while Usenet by its nature hosts a large number of
college students and young folks, CompuServe's published demographics are a
bit more mature.  By its nature, our forum attracts adults, and the general
tone of the place is one of shared interest in a common hobby.  Even though
neither Jim Kronman (my sysop partner) or I are smokers now, we've
established a firm principle that the purpose of our Cigars & Pipes section
is for people who enjoy fine tobacco to have a welcoming place to discuss
that hobby online.  We haven't had an infestation of anti-terbackky folks to
this point; if we did, I expect we'd probably all enjoy the debate for a
little while but would begin to self-censor it if things got repetitive or
tiresome.  And if necessary, the sysops would take the necessary steps if it
devolved into harassment.
These are just random thoughts, actually, spurred by your comments, about a
problem that hasn't happened and that we hope won't happen. I hope I haven't
bored you with a long reply, but I wanted to be as candid as possible in
responding to your reasonable concern.
We'll look forward to reading your digest!

[ I think the gateway is a good idea, and a good bet; what say you,
Mr. or Ms. Memeber? With no objections by next issue, let's do it. -S. ] 

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[ Spotted this on another list, FYI... -S. ]

From: Toonces <??????????????????>
Subject: Smoker's Convention

If anyone is interested in attending a Smokers Convention in Reno, Nevada on
August 25-28, 1994, please e-mail me at ?????????????????? for more
information, and to be added to our mailing list.


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From: ??????????????????????? (Martin Golding)
Subject: Digest 127: Hookahs

> HOOKAH: Also known as a WATER-PIPE. 

occasionally hubbly-bubbly, but that may be restricted to US expatriates.

> Many styles of hookah
> exist including those with multiple mouth pieces so that several may enjoy
> the hashish simultaneously.

Hookahs are Turkish only by grace of history, since what used to be Turkey
used to own most of the middle east.

The implication that hookahs are used only for hashish is ethnocentric.
In most of that area, one is as likely to sit in a sidewalk cafe and
"drink smoke" from a rented hookah as one is to sip coffee. 

And a possible interesting addendum to this topic in the FAQ:

The tobacco used in the hookah is usually dried whole leaf, soaked and
crumbled, or canned, mixed with various herbs and flavors. The very moist
tobacco is heaped into the bowl and covered with a small charcoal fire.

(Very convenient, BTW, for staying lit through a long afternoon of quiet
philosophical hammocking. The whole leaf I have burns for _hours_. I haven't
gotten the Indian herbal blend to work yet.) 

Fume quietly,


Martin Golding       |    email: ???????????????????????
ADP Dealer Services  | 

[ Always wanted to try one. But I'll stay away from the nasty street
hookahs... :-) -S. ]

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From: ???????????????? (Richard E. Byer)
Subject: Re: Pipes Digest #131 - February 18, 1994

> From: "William H. Magill" <?????????????????????>
> >   Someone on the list wrote that he tends to have bad experiences with
> >   "real cigars" and cites as an example the Romeo Y Julieta a friend
> >   brought back from England.
> >   Look, Cubans, general, and that cigar in particular, are much stronger
> >   than your average Dominican or Jamaican cigar.  And, in my view, Romeo Y
> >   Julietas are the most poorly made modern Cuban cigars.  Try some good
> >   Dominicans before you reject the good ones categorically.
> >
> This comment is not quite complete.
> ANY tobacco product, especially cigars, from the "continent" is STRONGER
> than the "American" version.  This follows the general American proclivity
> for "watered-down" versions of the real thing - like beer. It turns out
> that today not only do American breweries churn out barrels of Lager
> instead of Ale, but that Lager is only 4.0%! When I was in the military in
> the late 60's, 3.2% beer was served at the PX and referred to as "Panther
> P..." 

Not to be argumentative, but I think this response deserves some elaboration.
Most quality cigars imported legally into the US today com from either 
the Dominican Republic or Honduras. A few may still come from other 
Carribean Islands, such as Jamaica, and a few come from Nicauragua, 
Mexico and Brazil.  Focussing on Honduras, the Dominican Republic, and 
Cuba, generally, the Honduran cigars tend to be stronger than the 
Dominicans, and the Cubans tend to be stronger than the Honduran.  There 
are exceptions.  For example, La Fontanas (from Hondura) tend to be 
rather mild and sweet.  Contrast the Honuran Punch cigars (not to be
confused with the Cuban Punch cigars), which are quite strong (other than 
the vintage Puch cigars, which are not so strong.

> In the cigar world there is a style called EMS or European Market Selection.

I always thought that the EMS stood for "English Market Selection" and 
was more a medium brown.

> And as for Romeo Y Juleita being a Cuban? I have a brochure from the
> company on the occasion of their re-introduction to the American Market
> after a 20 year absence (circa 1982). They characterize themselves:
> "Romeo Y Julieta is an old and respected name in the cigar industry. We
> believe it to be the last of the really famous Cuban brands to re-enter the
> American Market." They go on to describe their quest to find new tobacco
> sources until, "We found the two bends that would more than fulfill the
> desires of the most discriminating of cigar smokers world-wide."
> Cameroon Deluxe from the Dominican Republic and "All Cuban Seed" from
> Honduras. The implication is clear from their brochure that they have moved
> all of their production from Cuba to these two locations - "Cuban-born
> supervision," "Cuban-born rollers," "Cuban seed," expatriate Cuban cigar
> experts," etc.

That may be the implication, but it is my understanding that that isn't 
quite right.  Most of the popular cigar brands have at least two alleged 
owners, the Cuban government and the growers who left Cuba with their 
seeds to set up shop elsewhere in the Carribean.  Hence there Romeo Y 
Julietas made in Cuba (which, as I said before, are very mediocre cigars) 
and, recently, RYJs from the Dominican Republic, which aren't bad.
Similarly, one can get Partagas made in the Dominican Republic and 
Partagas made in Cubas.  These are not made by the same folks.  the same 
is true with Cuban and Honduran Punch cigars.

On the other hand, Davidoff used to buy tobacco from Cuban, but recently 
stopped.  Their Davidoff line is now exclusively Dominican, and their 
Zeno line is Honduran.

For a truly delightful Cuban cigar, if you have access to them, try a 
Cohiba Robusto.
> DOTTLE: Unburned tobacco left in the heel of a pipe.

Thanks, I didn't even know there was a name for it!
> LATAKIA - From Syria/Cyprus (richly smoked and fermented)
> Latakia was "discovered" when a bumper crop resulted in surplus, and the
> excess tobacco was stored in the rafters.  The  village farmers
> traditionally used camel dung (or other dung, I suspect) as a source  of
> fuel, and the smoke cured tobacco was revealed the following season.
> Today, Latakia is smoked over a smoldering fire of aromatic herbs.  The 
> camel no longer has to process the herbs first!

Another illusion shattered, as I sit here smoking a rather pleasant 
Latakia blend <VBSEG>
> From: ????????????????????????????????????????
> Steve, I'll be traveling around Europe this summer (after a grueling 5 years
> of university) and I was wondering if there are any countries where I just
> simply "have to" pick up a pipe.  I figure Denmark is a good bet.  Any other
> suggestions?
> Also, I have really enjoyed the reviews of different pipe tobaccos.
> Could the experienced guys out there maybe ramble a little more about
> different generic types (like cavendish) and the flavours associated
> with them (mild, aromatic, fruity, etc).  This would be useful for us
> beginners.
> Thanks.
> Dave.
> [ Denmark would be a good bet. Ireland too, for the Petersons. Maybe
> France (Butz-Choquin and I believe GBD), England (Dunhill), and Italy
> (too many to mention).  -S. ]

The best European deal I ever saw was a a Dunhill #3202 style pipe for 
about 80 pounds in a pipe shop in Bath, England.  This was when the pound 
was equal to about $1.50.  I recently priced the same pipe at Georgetown 
Tobacco at $375.

Rick Byer <????????????????>|   Pick one:
__  Surrounded, hell! I'm just in a target rich environment.
__  It's always darkest just before you step on the cat.
__  My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

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From: ???????????????????????????????? (Edward N. Clark III)
Subject: Wooden Shoes and all that...

WOW!  Quite a collection of info to glean from Digest #130!  I'm almost out
the door to pick up a Meerschaum and desert the cigars for good, but I'll
have to think about it over a Fuente.

On to other things, I have to be especially thankful for the recent warming
trend here in the north country.  I'm sure I'm not alone in breathing a sigh
of relief for the relief, but I've always had a particular fondness for
enjoying a cigar and taking an idle walk around.  I found the campus here to
be a great trip.  But, this activity is totally beyond my metal when the
temps are toying with negative numbers.  At one point I toyed with the idea
of clipping cigars into thirds and taking very fast walks, but that fever
passed thankfully.  So, Mother Nature's recent respite from winter has me
feeling like I've got an old friend back. (warm fuzzy feeling comes over
those assembled)

Lastly, I've just racked off a batch of a Dutch Lager that SHOULD be quite
nice.  I sampled some at a brew store and tried to recreate the recipe.  And,
so, to round out the "international thing" I'm looking for some suggestions
on some nice Dutch cigars to complement.  The beer is heavily hopped and will
be on the bitter side, not as sharp a stout, but I'm trying for the "Heineken
thing".  So if anyone is relaxing with a nice "Heinie" (and the latest issue
of the Newslett), and any thoughts of a proper cigar pop into your head,
write 'em down.  Have a cold one for me, too. 

Ted Clark

[ I know we have some members in Holland -- any thoughts? On the best
Dutch beer to go with your seegar, too?? -S. ]

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From: Ed Gregory <????????????????>
Subject: Pipes

  I'm not an enthusiast, but have a Cherokee friend who ekes out a bare 
existance recreating native artifacts, including a wide variety of pipes, 
using natural materials...
  He does everything from raccoon paw medicine bags to custom-carved 
ceremonial pipes.
  Not much of a businessman, though.
  He travels the country, selling to museum gift shops, selling at pow 
wows, etc.
  I'm trying to get a perspective for how this business is conducted and 
help him identify resources and marketing methods.
[ Maybe check out sales through the magazines? Sierra, Utne Reader,
etc. might be a good place for that sort of thing. -S. ]

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From: ?????????????????????????????
Subject: Cigar Humidor Wanted

Thanks for the info.  I smoke cigars and pipes.  I primarily smoke Uppman 
and Macunudo cigars. Mostly purchase mail order from NY except when I go to 
Europe (once or twice a year) then I get Cuban versions of Uppmans.  I 
smoke mostly Dunhill pipes straight and bent (mostly older ones 1940's 
-70's). I find them in antique stores, flea markets etc. Most interesting 
ones have the real ivory "dot" and banded in silver or gold. I get my 
tobbacco from The Carmel Pipe Shop  on Delores Street in Carmel, CA.  They 
also do mail-order.  I'm 36 years old and work at 3Com in management 
training.  I'd like to be sent some of your earlier newsletters including 
#114,116,118.  Thanks, steve

Help from the newsletter:
I am looking to buy a used cigar humidor in good to excellent condition 
with a hygrometer.  Should hold only about 35-50 cigars.  I don't want a 
real expensive one (less than $100 USED). 

The other item I'm looking for used is a Dunhill "theatere pipe."  It's 
black and the bowl is slightly flattened to slip into a suit jacket pocket. 
Thanks steve,  e-mail or 408-764-5976.

[ Newsletters sent. Good luck on your search! -S. ]

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From: ?????????????????????????????
Subject: Pipes Comment

>If the tobacco in my pouch starts to feel a little
>dry, I sprinkle a few of drops of water directly onto
>the tobacco, then mix it up. This seems to keep the
>tobacco  properly moist and doesn't seem to damage it.

>Kam Kashani

>[ We do this too, sometimes, but find it difficult to control the
>humidity of the tobacco. Saturating it kills it, too. Any advice on
>this? -S. ]
My Dad gave me the tip of inserting a piece of fresh orange rind into the 
tobbacco pouch to keep the tobacco moist without saturating or imparting a 
strong flavor. sw

[ But be careful, this can cause mold... -S. ]

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From: ????????????????????????? (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Heartbreak Pipe

I haven't been to the States in quite a while.  Which means that I
haven't been able to buy cheap Amerikanski tobacco in quite a while,
either.  Mind you, since the government realised that it was either
going to have to lower tobacco taxes or start shooting Indians; the
excise situation will have improved a bit.

So there I was in Winston and Holmes in Yorkville, picking up a couple
of hundred grammes of Latakia-heavy tobacco (why do people on this
group use the term "tobak"? Is it Danish or something?), and I was
looking at the pipes on the wall.  And a salesman smells my desire to
buy a pipe from across the room.  And he's showing me some of their
reasonable standby stuff.  And I tell him that it is all very nice,
but I never buy sandblasts; and I like a medium-sized bowl with a
dead-straight vertical grain running to an eyeball on the heel.

Well, he says, have you ever looked at an Italian pipe?

No, says I, I haven't.

So he opens up a case and starts taking out these beautiful
blond-coloured Costello pipes.  Every one has a dead-straight vertical
grain.  Every one feels light as ... well, light as a Stanwell.  And
there she was ... blonde, delicately curved, silver military shank,
with a sexy vertical oval shape that made my heart stop.

You have sold me a pipe, sir, says I.

Excellent, sir, says the salesman.  That will be nine hundred
ninety-eight dollars plus GST and PST (which, incidentally, would add
another hundred and fifty dollars).

Well, I uttered a groan of heartfelt pain.  There she was, right in
front of me; and there I was facing the prospect of blowing my then
strong cash position by spending my rent and car-payment money on this
gorgeous Italian blonde.

You have broken my heart, says I to the salesman.  Then I walked over
to the proprietor so that he could overcharge me for my tobacco; and
told him that he should be ashamed of his employee; who was using the
charms of his wares to tempt upright young men into inappropriate

Oh, but it was hard to leave the shop, and hard to walk home that day.  

Remember this, and don't let it happen to you!


Aryk Nusbacher

[ Know how it feels, Aryk - BTW, I think I picked up the term "tobak"
from _The Pipe Smoker's Ephemeris._ And I think it is Danish, but am
not sure -- if I remember correctly, French is tabac, and German is
tabak. -S. ]

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From: ?????????????????????????
Subject: Re: Humidors: Repost

Thanks for the newsletter from the pipes group. I found it
interesting and informative and will look forward to it.  Now, I
have a question for the group which, perhaps, you can help  me

I am embarassed to have to admit it, but I live in a country where
a conspiracy of health bigots and tax gougers has made the price of
tobacco outrageous.  Recently, however, as you may know, the
Canadian smoker, by resorting to widescale smuggling (amazing and
encouraging!), has forced the government to reduce taxes on
cigarettes, and several of the provinces have followed suit.  Mine
(Manitoba) has not.  Hence, in Ontario, the price of cigarets is
half (23/carton) what we pay here (approx 45/carton).  If I were a
cigarette smoker, I would have several means of availing myself of
these greatly reduced prices. Alas, I smoke pipes.

What I need to know, then, is this:

     First, have pipe tobacco prices dropped accordingly in the
Provinces which have accepted the reduced cigaret taxes; and,

     Second, can someone from Ontario/Quebec/another province
supply me with the names and addresses of dealers or individuals
from whom I can order my pipe tobacco supplies?

I would very much appreciate a quick response to this and thank you
in advance for any help you can provide.  

Walt Stein

[ Perhaps someone who wants to trade Cu-er-Canadian cigars for US
pipes and terbacky could help Walt? -S. ]

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From: Tyson F Nuss <???????????????????????>
Subject: Laszlo steps out of the shadows!

Salve', all!

	Well, it occurs to me that I've yet to actually introduce
myself here, which is curious considering I've become something of
a deferred-to expert.  Yes, I am *the* Laszlo, who maintains the
infamous Smokelist of luxury cigarets.  I've been around since the
ill-fated rec.tobacco RFD, and have since been active in alt.smokers.
I updated the Smokelist a couple weeks ago, adding flavour comments
and including the finds I unearthed over Xmas at the legendary Paul's
Pipe Shop in Flint, MI.  The big guy himself was absent, but a darling
little old lady took us upstairs to see the "museum" and show us around.
They had the actual pipes used by every winner since the late 1940s in
their annual pipe-smoking contest!

	In this contest, each entrant gets a small, measured quantity
of tobacco (3 grams?  About a tablespoonful, anyway) and two matches.
The second match is taken away if you don't use it to relight within
the first minute.  The object is to keep it lit for as long as possible;
the record is just over *two*hours*!  Egad.

	They also had all manner of strange and kitschy lighters,
promotional items, strange pipe designs through the years (one had
a black plastic cage holding a quartz-glass bowl--very '40s/'50s
looking), and a few displays of old, defunct brands of cigarets.
One had even been offered as a diet aid (called "Trim-A-Way" or
something, with a '50s stylized hourglass-figure silhouette)!

	Then, back downstairs to the cool, clammy humidor, where
they kept all their cigars *and* import/luxury cigarets.  These
cigarets could be 10 years old, and still fresh!  Every nook and
cranny had something bizarre or quaint to offer.  My "buy" stack
reached higher and higher.  I wound up spending *$50* on packs
of cigarets!

	I do smoke a pipe very rarely, but quality cigarets are
my forte', only smoking 1-5 cigarets per day.  I've got a whole
rationale for why cigarets, but I'll save that for another time,
another Digest.  I bought a Fuente 8-5-8 Maduro the other day,
as my first "real" cigar, and while it was *nice*, it didn't make
me a cigar "true-believer" as I'd half-expected, judging from
comments here. %-}  For the money ($2.25), I could've had a couple
weeks' worth of smoking satisfaction from a pouch of rolling tobacco.
Ah well, to each his own...

___    A      ??????????????????????? (Monsignore Laszlo C. Tinker, esq.)
| |   {*}     Redhead Afficionado Extraordinaire   *and*
| |  __V__    Little Canadia's Minister of Fine Tobacco Products
|_|o_|%%%|0_  Cigaret brands sampled: 100 import/luxury, 22 handrolling
   |       |  "A hobby, not a habit - smoke less and enjoy it more!"
   |_______| -----> Can anyone bum me a .sig?

[ I participated in a pipe smoking contest once... made it to about 25
minutes, but I got a Handsome Certificate, Suitable for Framing. It's
still around somewhere, maybe with my diploma... -S. ]

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		       Today's Snappy Comeback:

(The Response Newlywed:) "Gosh, darling, our first fight. And just
think, we'll be able to repeat it every time I light up."

				- From "101 Ways to Answer the
				  Question, 'Would You Please Put Out
				  that #(!&*!$ Cigar'," Hague et. al.,

 U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ | ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U
 )				       *   *                                 ( 
( Pipe smokers will rule the world!      *      Internet Pipes Mailgroup      )
 ) (if they don't run out of matches...) *  (for all who enjoy fine tobacco) ( 
(					 *        			      )
 )           Steve Masticola, moderator  *  (????????????????????????)       ( 
(				       *   *				      )
 U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ U/~ | ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U ~\U

Article Index

  1. Subject: Pipes Digest #132 - February 25, 1994
  2. Subject: Re: Pipes Digest #131 - February 18, 1994
  3. Subject: Pipes Digest
  4. Subject: Re: Pipes Digest
  5. Subject: Smoker's Convention
  6. Subject: Digest 127: Hookahs
  7. Subject: Re: Pipes Digest #131 - February 18, 1994
  8. Subject: Wooden Shoes and all that...
  9. Subject: Pipes
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